The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. But that's not working in the P320, he said. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. LOL! The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? I continue to bet my life on them. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. It has nothing to do with Glock. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. Who knows. Good job! SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. . The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Third, Glock has had problems, too. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. That took a lot. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. They function as commanded every time. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Great job, this threat needed some levity! So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. Fair enough. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. Folks disagree on brands. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. 3. These officers are not gunfighters. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Would you? That focus drifts. He points to it in the video. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Anyway around here they do. Wheee!!. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Theres a couple of possibilities. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Too Many Accidents Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Where is this lightning striking twice? Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. Kyle . Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. The P320 pistol is a dog. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Liberal, Conservative. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Im more of a DS9 guy. You arent a gunfighter, either. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. Trust a P365 with your life. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. It did not originally have this. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. ALL OF THEM. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. There was no holster involved. D. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. How about something more relevant. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. Because its flat out bull**it. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. My gun just went off! The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. 2. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. 2. . Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . Nope. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. Search Texas Statutes. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. I sold that pistol when I got it back. 00:03. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. On Thursday, M.D. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. First off, no joke on me. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. three changes to the original design. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. 1:07. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. I dont own a P320. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. how to get the poop out of crawfish,
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James Caan Health Condition, Articles S